Fun with Nazi lyrics

UPDATE 8/19/12 The intro for this post has just been re-done, primarily to shorten it.

I do a kind of poetry on this blog. I take the lyrics of songs I listen to and alter them in different ways. On average about 60% of the syllables in my version are mine, 40% are from the original (that was updated 3/28/20). One of the two main ways I alter the lyrics is that I take lyrics about N. Ireland and make them about general liberal-left stuff, or vice versa. The other way is to take lyrics that are politically offensive to me and twist them into more or less the opposite of what they were originally (i.e. I took a song called “Oh no Here Comes a Commie" and made it “Oh no, Here Comes a Fascist”) (those poems also often involve a change of subject as well, and there's a small number of poems that contain only a small amount of material in conflict with what the original authors believe, but at the very least there's that). Almost all of the offensive lyrics that I alter are from Nazi skinhead bands.

I can't remember exactly how it started, but I decided that I like taking the lyrics of racist songs and twisting them into more or less the opposite of what the original said. I like the idea of taking their songs and throwing them back in their face, saying "look what I did, I took your lyrics and twisted them into the exact opposite of what you intended, you racist mother-fucker!” I imagine them reading my poem and recognizing some of the lines and getting pissed off about that in connection with what AT LEAST one line that I put there says (or a word in a line, etc.). Another way of looking at it is that it's like in those cartoons where Elmer Fudd points a gun at Bugs Bunny and Bugs bends it so that the gun is pointed at Fudd. Also, sometimes it's entertaining to read the original lyrics and then read my poem, at least when my version says the opposite of what the original says. I have also frequently done poems based on lyrics I like. (I have often referred to the poems based on offensive stuff as “Those Lyrics”). Almost all the time when I'm twisting offensive lyrics, I more or less change only what has to be changed- if it's completely different from the original, that kind of defeats the idea, although it could still be a good poem. I have also started twisting loyalist lyrics like I twist the racist stuff.

I do these poems because writing them is a fun, creative process, I get to express myself and explains stuff, especially through the notes, and some are really good.

A lot of the poems about N. Ireland are based on lyrics by people who more or less support(ed) the British and/or unionist causes in N. Ireland. With the rest of the N. Ireland poems based on racist stuff from other  countries with a significant chunk of the Irish diaspora, I have included at least one bit of something hostile to white supremacists (See this for more about that). Some of the former bands are Skrewdriver, No Remorse, and Brutal Attack. Some of the latter bands are Final War, Bound for Glory, and Bully Boys. Some poems are based on Nazi Skinhead stuff from other countries like Belgium. Without a lot of Irish-Belgians around talking about "the Cause" I think they probably just go with what their hero Ian Stuart of Skewdriver said about the North.

I have done my best and last calculation of how much of the lyrics are me and how much are the original. I counted all the sylables, and then the sylables of the words I put in the poem and came up with what % of the lyrics are me. ** marks this last, best, and final calculation.

Although this probably goes without saying, I am never or practically never referring to me when I use the first person. You might say the poems are about actual people who are not Tom Shelley or characters or something like that. I was not interested in changing all the first person statements, but I am no Walter Mitty!

The rest of the songs/poems can be found by clicking on the "lyrics" label at the bottom (there are several pages worth of posts, so click on the "older posts" at the bottom of the first page).


Why do I listen to that kind of music? (between late 2008 and mid-2018, I’ve spent an average of about 1 hr. a day listening to music by Nazi Skinheads (probably an average of about 5 hours a day listening to more or less anti-racist or neutral music):
1. I’ve always been interested in skinheads and very much opposed to Nazi Skinheads. In general, there’s something about listening to the music of my enemy that I find fascinating.
2. Although I don’t have to listen to study the lyrics, that is part of why I listen. It’s kind of research. Same for the fan-vids I downloaded from YouTube that have a lot of imagery.
3. The ones I listen to are MUSICALLY good- I like the sound.
4. These "poems" I write (and inspiration often strikes when I'm listening, so I kind of DO need to listen for this reason).

Some other things about me listening to that music:

1. I listen to a small amount of N. Ireland loyalist (anti-Catholic/anti-Irish) music and several of the Nazi songs I listen to have the same message (I’m Irish-American and Catholic).
2. I have heard of other people doing something similar.
3. From about 1989 til 2009 about 70% of the FICTION that I read was by people like Tom Clancy and Stephen Coonts, people who are very close to the political center, and yet half that time I was doing a ton of left-wing activism (the rest of the time I was doing almost nothing political).
4. I have done a ton of activism on anti-racist and/or anti-homophobic issues and did a pretty good job of organizing that way on other issues. This blog has a ton of material that’s anti-racist, anti-homophobic and even more material that is against anti-semitism. 

 

UPDATE 1/21/19 I am leaving the above 2 sections because I DID for about 10 years listen to that music, but I also need to announce that I stopped listening to it recently. I learned recently the hard way that listening to it when I'm already depressed just makes my depression worse, and I also worry that anti-racist people will attack me over listening to that stuff. On the other hand, the last thing I'm going to do is delete my poetry from this blog. To one degree or another it's really good.

Why do I provide a link to the original lyrics even when they are offensive fascist or loyalist stuff?

1. I probably have nothing to worry about, but I DO worry about getting sued or legally harassed by the authors of the original lyrics, who despise me. I think that linking to the original lyrics might make it less likely that sort of attack on me would work.
2. I would say something similar about being criticized for stealing from artists without giving them credit.
3. Some of the best lines in my poems are unaltered from the original and I believe strongly in giving credit it when it’s due.
4. When less than about 50% of my poem is me and at least 51% of it is the original and my poem is saying the opposite of what the original was saying, sometimes it’s kind of amusing to read the original and then read my poem.
5. Sometimes the best lines were mostly or entirely written by me and I want people to know which amazing lines were written by me.

That's about it. Here are the poems- with some notes, which are probably more or less needed.

1. Costello's Song. Irish politics.
2. Red Power. American politics.
3. The Spirit of Che Guevara. Global resistance to oppression.
4. Fuck Orangeism. Anti-Sectarian Protestants in N. Ireland.

Costello's Song

Based on "White Power" by Skrewdriver, original lyrics are here.

1. Seamus Costello was a socialist republican leader in the 1970s, for more see the post below this.
2. FF and FG are Fianna Fail and Fine Gael, the two largest parties in the Republic, more or less centrist/centre-right.
3. The divison of Ireland and the sectarianism that goes with it weaken various liberal, left, progressive, and working-class movements, and therefore are part of the socio-economic problem; also, the two main unionist parties are basically centre-right, and Blair's economic policies have not helped the North.
4. "just sit and scoff" I'm exaggerating how little was done to stop it, buit 90% of the time, unless I have a good reason, I don't like to alter the lyrics unless neccessary (i.e. Red instead of White). Same thing with the line about corruption. Also, on a related note, it now exaggerates how little was done to stop the growth of corporate power- it might also exaggerate how powerful corporations in Ireland have become.
5. Aside from a huge chunk the loyalist paramilitaries, there aren't many fascists in Ireland (although, there's a large number in Britain and they often visit N. Ireland), and I don't advocate killing them, but I didn't have a good reason for changing that line any more than I did.
6. The line that ends with "begun," might not be the Queen's English, but I'm an Irish Republican, so fuck the Queen (seriously, though, it rhymes).
7. The North is a lot less Orange today than it used to be, but aside from uniting Ireland, there's still room for improvement on that front.
8. Ian Paisley was a notorious anti-Catholic bigot most of his life.
9. In my songs, I use the word "fascist" to refer to more than just Nazis, but also as a statement against bigotry (that doesn't mean I advocsate killing them, but in these first two poems using the word "fascist" is meant to bring up the subject of bigotry, something otherwise absent from the poem).
10. UPDATE Both Red Power and Costello's Song have a line about corporations taking over, and the second half of that line is different for each song. I'm switching them- the slam dance analogy makes more sense in the American context.
**11. 35% of this version is me, 65% is the original.
12. I give this song/poem four out of five stars.
13. Orange is the color of anti-Catholic bigotry in N. Ireland.
14. It's about republican socialists in general. I don't think Costello advocated the violent overthrow of the Dublin State. In any case this poem isn't advocating that. and today probably only a very small minority of republican socialists advocate that.

I stand and watch my country, going down the drain
The Brits and unionists, FF and FG, they are all to blame
The corporations have taken over, we just let them advance
But if we remember Seamus, we still have a chance

Red Power
For Ireland
Red Power
Today
Red Power
For the world
Before it gets too late

Well we've seen a lot of privitisation, we just sit and scoff
We've seen a lot of corruption, and the judges let 'em off

We've got to do something, to try and stop the rot
And the fascists that abuse us, they should all be shot

Are we going to finish what Seamus begun?
Have they got the Republican Left on the run?
Orange society is a mess
We ain't gonna take much more of this

What do we need?

Red Power
For Ireland
Red Power
Today
Red Power
For the world
Before it gets too late

Well, if we don't win our battle, and all does not go well
It's Apocalypse for Ireland and we'll see Ian Paisley in hell

********

Red Power

Based on "White Power" by Skrewdriver, original lyrics are here.

1. I exaggerate how little was done to stop the growth of corporate power and privitisation, but crucial parts of those lines are in the original.
2. "fascists" I don't advocate killing them (and with some exceptions I don't believe they should be shot either), but the vast majority of the time, unless I have a good reason, I don't like to alter the lyrics unless neccessary (i.e. Red instead of White).
3. I slightly exaggerate how bad things are for the poor and how judges treat corruption.
4. Obviously no one's being drafted, but it could happen, it's even slightly possible with Obama, and just recently it was very possible.
5. Obama, who is slightly to the left of the Clintonites, is probably going to disapoint, but A: he's probably still better than McCain (especially considering Palin), and B: overwhelmingly the current situation can be blamed on the two groups mentioned.
6. In my songs, I use the word "fascist" to refer to more than just Nazis, but also as a statement against bigotry.
7. UPDATE Both Red Power and Costello's Song have a line about corporations taking over, and the second half of that line is different for each song. I'm switching them- the slam dance analogy makes more sense in the American context.
8. "Slam dance." Probably something like 2/3 of concerts, slam dancing/moshing is the exact opposite of what I'm talking about. But "slam dance" rhymes and mostly makes sense. (of course it's been about 13 years now, but I doubt it's changed)
**9. 34% of this version is me, 66% is the original.
10. I give this song/poem four out of five stars.
11. Obviously corporations have been dominant in America for many decades, but in the last 20 or so years it's gotten worse- i.e. privatization.
12. This is about combating injustice in different ways and what I have in mind overall would be about 99% non-violent.

I stand and watch my country, going down the drain
The Republicans and Clintonites, they are all to blame
The corporations have taken over, it's a social slam dance
We used to have the New Deal, now the poor don't have a chance

Red Power
For America
Red Power
Today
Red Power
For the world
Before it gets too late

Well we've seen a lot of privitisation, we just sit and scoff
We've seen a lot of corruption, and the judges let 'em off

We've got to do something, to try and stop the rot
And the fascists that abuse us, they should all be shot

Are we going to sit while they draft our sons?
Have they got the unions on the run?
Capitalist society is a mess
We ain't gonna take much more of this

What do we need?

Red Power
For America
Red Power
Today
Red Power
For the world
Before it gets too late

Well, if we don't win our battle, and all does not go well
It's Apocalypse for the world and we'll see George Bush in hell

******

The Spirit of Che Guevara

Based on "Soldier of Freedom" by Skrewdriver, original lyrics are here.

0. UPDATE 2/15/19  The line about heroes bleeding- I could have sworn it was a fairly or at least sort of common line when discussing martyrs, etc. of armed struggle. And after searching for that phrase just now, it seems like practically no one uses it the way I was using it. I might change it sometime soon.
1. I'll keep this brief, but I don't believe universally in seperatism. There has to be either serious oppression and/or something like 65% support for it among the relevant population, or some kind of combination (that applies to independence, I have slightly lower standards for autonomy) (besides what I mention below, I support the Basques, Turkey's kurds, iraq's kurds, possibly some others, and potentially many non-European-American nations inside the US (the main issue there is how much popular support there is for seperatism among that nation, also possibly all residents of the area that will become independent (if a situation roughly geographically similar to the Irish situtaion develops, I would look at it roughly the same way); I do not, at this point, support Scottish Independence (UPDATE 4/11/16 I do NOW since last years British election saw the Scottish Nationalists get 56 out of 59 seats in Scotland (in the previous British Parliament they had 6 out of 59 which is believe is very close to what they have gotten in recent decades)).
2. I don't know how sympathetic Cheney was to Apartheid, but I believe that he voted for a resolution labeling Nelson Mandela and/or the ANC as terrorists. (UPDATE 1/31/09: Although I wouldn't be surprised if he did exactly what I said he did, I have found two things about him I'm certain of, which are basically the same as that (including one vote against sanctions on S. Africa))
3. Although I'm not sure that line is worded the right way, the World Bank and IMF frequently do stuff that makes poverty worse despite popular support for progressive economics in countries that get involved with the World Bank. In South Africa for example, one or both institutions thwarted the ANC government from advancing the economic policies they had campaigned on at the end of Apartheid (I'm not sure to what degree some of the people in the ANC had to be dragged into implementing WB's preferred policies, but the fact is that that kind of aid from international institutions shouldn't be used to discourage democratically elected governments from implementing the progressive economics they said they would when campaigning for office).
4. The last line is adopted from my favorite song, "Your Daughters and Your Sons." The lyrics are here.
5. Belfast is the capital of Northern Ireland.
6. Spain refers to the Spanish Civil War, which was won by the fascist side, which was followed by a fascist takeover of most of Europe.
7. S. Africa refers to the anti-Apartheid struggle.
8. The couplet that mentions Little Bighorn is referring to conflict between America settlers and the US Army on one hand, and Native Americans on the other. The tentacles part is about how after that battle, the westward settlement of the US continued.
9. The Warsaw Ghetto during World War II saw a rebellion by the Jewish occupants.
10. West Bank refers to the Palestinian struggle.
11. East Timor experienced a genocidal occupation by Indonesia until 1999.
**12. 48% of this version is me, 52% is the original, which doesn't count eliminating the 3-line chorus but does count adding two completely new lines at the very end.
13. I give this song/poem five out of five stars.
14. The reference to class pride is about WORKING-CLASS pride, and is not the best line I've done, (because most of the conflicts in this poem are more about national/religious/racial oppression than they are about class oppression) but it's okay.
15. UPDATE 7/9/12 This is not exclusively about armed struggle.
16. UPDATE 6/19/16 I changed WIN to SURVIVE in the 2nd line of the 3rd verse.

I don't fight for money, the whole world is my land
I'm fighting for freedom, I know where I stand
I fight for the nations, that haven't yet died
I fight to stop Imperialism, creating global class pride

I fought in Belfast, where the heroes bled
I fought in Spain, but the Brown disease, it spread
I fought in South Africa, against Dick Cheney's pets
Now I see democracy undermined by World Bank debt

I fought at Little Big Horn, but the tentacles spread
We are determined to survive, we will plow on ahead
I fought in the Warsaw Ghetto and the West Bank
With our rifles and petrol bombs we took on their tanks

We won in East Timor, against mass slaughters
It'll happen again, because you sow the seed of freedom in your sons and your daughters

*****

This one is actually not based on a racist song, it's a N. Ireland version of my favorite anti-fascist song. Considering the source of the original (white British people) and the lyrics, it's mostly aimed at celebrating Protestants who are anti-sectarian, or even better, republican. The original is called "Fuck Fascism" by The Oppressed. I guess I call it "Fuck Orangeism," (Orange is the color of anti-Catholic bigotry in N. Ireland) although I don't change all the key lyrics since there are obviously racists and fascists there (and the vast majority of them are associated with the Unionist/Loyalist side). It's about a mixture of violence and, mostly, non-violence.

**10% of this version is me, 90% is the original.

I give this song/poem four out of five stars.

The web-site of The Oppressed has shut down and I can't find the lyrics on-line except for a long discussion, so I'll just post them below the altered version. UPDATE 3/9/20 I decided that I like this poem more than I used to, but I also decided that a few more words need to be changed- it was written in 2008 and talks about an Orange State as if there wasn't one at that time, and there kind of WAS- I guess you could say that now, in 2020 it makes more sense since it isn't Orange at all today.

"Fuck Orangeism"
You don't understand us, we're nobody's fool
We know there's no freedom, under Orange rule
You'll never oppress us, you'll never dictate
Don't you see, we don't need, your sectarian hate

FASCISM, FASCISM, FUCK YOU AND YOUR FASCISM
FASCISM, FASCISM, FUCK YOU AND YOUR FASCISM

We'll NEVER surrender, we'll NEVER give in
We will NEVER turn our backs or let the sectarians win
So, don't try and tell us, about your Orange state
Don't you see, we don't need, your racial hate


"Fuck Fascism"
You don't understand us, we're nobody's foll,
We know there's no freedom, under fascist rule,
You'll never oppress us, you'll never dictate
Don't you see, we don't need, your racial hate

CHORUS:FASCISM,FASCISM,FUCK YOU AND YOUR FASCISM

We'll never surrender, we'll never give in,
we will never turn our backs, or let the racists win,
So don't try and tell us about your fascist state,
Don't you see, we don't need, your racial hate


One last note: Even with the songs that are only about 10% me (and at the upper end, one is 75% me), I have a request, although I don't have strong feelings or expectations about this. First, I want credit for these songs. Second, I'd appreciate it if the notes follow the lyrics around the internet. If you modify the lyrics further, please either make some notes for the changes if you leave some of my changes, or just provide a link to this URL so people can see my version. Although I'm not sure how many people will like what I'm doing with the lyrics, to one degree or another (depending on how much I changed them) I'm proud of these songs- and at the risk of getting a little personal, if people like the songs, I could really use the extra boost of getting credit for them right now (or if you don't like them, they were all written by Sarah Palin- that fascist, what kind of sick person enjoys altering racist lyrics?).

I Owe My Allegiance Only To The Working-Class

Seamus Costello once said the title for this post. He was the founder and primary leader of the Irish Republican Socialist Movement from it's formation in 1974 (partly by people leaving Official Sinn Fein) until his death in 1977.

I'm a republican-socialist in the Irish sense. Does that mean I support the Irish Republican Socialist Party (IRSP) and the Irish National Liberation Army (INLA)? Overwhelmingly, today, no. Also, there are tons of republican-socialists in Sinn Fein, and to one degree or another in other republican groups, and there are independent ones. But as a good, if slightly misguided, republican-socialist, I did, in the late 1990s flirt with the IRSP. And I believe that during the period 1974-1982 it was amazing. But I have not supported the RSM since 2000 and this post is about the first several years of the IRSM, not the time since 1982 (some people would advise me to keep that praise about the early years to myself, but after YEARS of thinking about it I am convinced that Seamus Costello was a great republican-socialist).

Shortly I'll go into a lot of detail about why I like the IRSP during that period, and then I'll describe why I don't like them today, and then I'll offer some thoughts on the other dissident groups. But first I want to clear something up.

In 2001 I found an archived email to some left-wing list that contained a letter to the editor of the Irish News I had written (it was criticizing Sinn Fein over the NY City St. Patrick's Day Parade). At the top, the person who sent it said I was a member of the IRSP. Although I did come close to joining once, I never even sent in an application. The email was sent 2 years earlier, so I didn't bother issuing a correction to the list I wasn't even on.

More generally, at the time I was significantly closer to SF than to the IRSP. My support for the IRSP included:

1) I was on their N. American email list.
2) When the library of the INLA prisoners was somehow destroyed (it somehow involved a loyalist attack), there was an appeal for good pinko books. I sent a bunch, hopefully all/most were enjoyed.
3) At one point, for sort of stupid reasons, I sent them my copies of two amazing anti-unionist and socialist books.
4) When I sent them a check for some merchandise, after emailing a couple times about not receiving the stuff, I told them to just keep it as a donation (I'm not sure if I even checked if the check was deposited).
5) I put out a small amount of IRSP lit. when I was tabling.

I think that's it. To give you an idea of how I was NOT very close to the IRSP, shortly before I went on my first trip to the North right around Jan. 1st 1999, I was put in touch with the brother of one of the INLA 1981 hunger-strikers, who wanted to hang out with me in Derry. I declined- I didn't want to get in that deep with the IRSP. (In the late 1990s I was closer to supporting Sinn Fein than the IRSP in terms of literature I put out while tabling on campus and bringing speakers to campus)

Two general points before I proceed. Whether it applies to the early period or since 1982, the IRSP is a little bit, perhaps significantly, to the left of me- I don't think you'll find any people in the IRSP who use the term social-democrat (I call myself a democratic Marxist/lefti-wing social democrat). That's got almost nothing to do with why I don't support them today. And if I was politically active during that earlier period, although I would have also expressed some degree of support for SF, I probably would have primarily supported the IRSP.

Here's why I like the Republican Socialist Movement during that earlier period:

1. Electorally, they had the support of about 1% of the Nationalist community, although there were probably many who supported them but, as republicans and as revolutionary socialists weren't voting. Probably most of the 40% of the Nationalist community who supported the IRA also sort of supported the INLA, and probably most of the 40% who sort of supported the IRA kind of, sort of, supported the INLA (the first 40% is based mostly on solid election figures, the second is a pretty reasonable estimate, based largely on what I've heard about support for the hunger-strikers in 1981).

2. They gave their lives disproportionately on hunger-strike in 1981 (well, based on everything I've read, there's no way that INLA members were 30% of republican prisoners at that time, but they were 30% of those who died).

3. From 1978 to 1980 when he was killed, the Chief of Staff (leader) of the INLA was Ronnie Bunting Jr. His father was Ian Paisley's (the notorious anti-Catholic bigot) right hand man who organized attacks on the civil rights movement in the late 1960s.

I give Ronnie Bunting Jr. a lot of extra points for breaking from the sectarianism of his father. Also, and I'm not sure I'd bother saying this if it were just that he was a Protestant, but considering who his father was, I give the Volunteers of the INLA a lot of extra points for accepting his leadership. (that doesn't mean I'm saying that republican groups not led by Protestants are sectarian, but it's not insignificant that he was chief of staff)

4. Bernadette Devlin-McAliskey was Co-Chair of the IRSP for the first year. She left because she felt that too much emphasis was being put on the armed struggle, but she remained friendly with them, and has continued to be in recent years.

5. In 1975 they became one of the two first political parties in Ireland to call for gay rights and possibly the very first to support abortion rights.

6. UPDATE 1/29/09 In the late 1970s, according to Tim Pat Coogan, the Provisonal IRA (now known simply as the IRA), collaborated with the INLA.

7. Seamus Costello, who was the primary leader of the IRSP and was Chief of Staff of the INLA, was one of Ireland's three greatest republicans/socialists. That's based on the following:

A: He was on the following bodies when he was killed (they all appear to be in the Republic of Ireland):

Wicklow County Council, County Wicklow Committee of Agriculture, General Council of Committees of Agriculture, Eastern Regional Development Organisation, National Museum Development Committee, Bray Urban District Council, Bray and District Trade Unions Council (of which he was president 1976-77)

B: Nora Connolly O'Brien, daughter of James Connolly (Ireland's greatest socialist/republican) said after Costello's death that of all the people she spoke with who claimed to be followers of Connolly, Costello was the only one who fully understood what he meant.

C: Eamonn McCann wrote highly of him, sometime years after his death.

D: Bernadette Devlin-McAliskey spoke highly of him after his death.

E: Dr. Noel Browne (he was a senior minister in a coalition government in Dublin shortly after world war II) spoke highly of him.

F: Tony Gregory spoke highly of him.

G: His speeches and interviews indicate a very good understanding of the connections between national liberation and socialism. He also believed in anti-imperialist unity and in dialogue with Loyalists. Critically he believed that when talking with loyalists it was important to be honest with them about being republicans and socialists (apparently there was a history of republican and non-loyalist socialists not doing this). Also, at the conference mentioned below, there was at least one loyalist, so he did talk with them at least once.

H: When he attended a conference in America in 1975 to which participants to the conflict were invited, he spoke for three hours as scheduled, and was then later asked to speak for another two hours.

I: UPDATE 1/29/09 Sinn Fein, in at least two ways, indicated their respect for him after he died.


That's it for that period. I chose 1982 as a cut-off point because it's one year after the Hunger-Strike, and one year before Sinn Fein decided they would not share a platform with the IRSP.

Why do I not support them today?

1. If they ran candidates, they'd probably get something like .5% of the Nationalist vote. This causes two problems for me. First, I'm reluctant to support armed organizations with such a low level of support, and second, it makes me wonder if there are some things local people know that I don't- for example, is there a little bit of truth to allegations of for-profit criminality or sectarianism.

2. They're anti-Good Friday Agreement. I could, and might, do an entire post on that, but let me explain why I largely support it- A: it's not that bad and B: about 99% of the nationalist community voted for it. (Here is that post)

3. In the 1980s and 1990s there was a lot of feuding involving the INLA. I won't go into the details but will say that even though it's likely I should not hold this against them, it still generates some concern, when feuding happens.

4. In 1997 the INLA issued a statement. At the time I wasn't too bothered by it, but I have since decided that it represented some degree of stupidity or sectarianism in the INLA. It threatened that the INLA would kill Orange Order (an anti-Catholic organization (see this for more info on why they should not be marching through Catholic areas)) members if their marches were forced through Catholic areas. Now, Orange marchers should stay out of Catholic areas, but I'm not sure if they're so bad that they deserve to be shot in that situation (I think they're only something like 90% as bad as the Klan), and even though I wouldn't call it sectarian, huge numbers of people would interpret it as such. It would have made more sense to threaten the security forces who were forcing the marches through.

5. When Eamonn McCann praised Costello, he said that he wouldn't like today's RSM.

My thoughts on the other main dissident groups:

Republican Sinn Fein and the Continuity IRA: First, and this goes for the next Movement as well, they need to go on cease-fire and stay there (for the foreseeable future). From what I've read, in 1998 no more than about .33% of the Nationalist community supported the continuation of armed struggle, I have no reason to believe that's gone up more than a tiny amount. Second, as far as I can tell, they're fairly socially conservative, whereas SF is very progressive socially.

32 County Sovereignty Movement and the Real IRA: Once again, go on cease-fire. They're probably roughly as left-wing, maybe a little less, than SF.

Eirigi: I'm not too familiar with them, they emerged during the last 4 years when I was only reading about 50 articles a week relevant to the North. I know Bernadette Devlin-McAliskey is friendly to them, so is the Troops Out Movement (A British group that is close to SF). As far as I can tell, a significant part of their disagreement with SF is over policing, which SF generally supports. Also, there's no doubt they're solidly left-wing. They have no connection to an armed group and generally do not support the continuation of armed struggle.

In a 2007 survey, only 2% of Catholics said the GFA was a bad thing.

So, if you decide to ignore the opinion of roughly 98% of the Nationalist community that either supports the GFA or who think it doesn't matter (21% of those surveyed), not to mention the 55% that support SF and the (likely) 75% of the poorest half of the Nationalist community that supports SF, and support dissidents, I strongly recommend you go with either the IRSP or Eirigi.

Also, what are my current feelings about the RSM?

1. I hope that their members are neither arrested nor killed (same for all dissidents).
2. I would support political status for their POWs (same for all dissidents).
3. The INLA, as far as I can tell, have been on a VERY solid cease-fire since shortly after the Good Friday Agreement, in respect of the fact that there is almost no popular support for armed struggle.
4. I assume that some majority of their members maintain the politics of Seamus Costello.

I want to say something about the killing of Seamus Costello. He was killed by the Official IRA. I could do an entire post on them, but I'll keep this brief. They, and currently they're represented politically by the Workers Party, are horrible. They had absolutely ZERO justification for attacking the RSM when a bunch of Official IRA and Official SF (the Officials were the other side of the split in late 1969/early 1970 that produced the Provisionals, now known simply as SF and the IRA) followed Seamus Costello to form the RSM. Including Costello, four IRSP members were killed. Although Costello was a military leader, he was also a civilian leader of the IRSP and held many positions in public or semi-public bodies, and was not a legitimate target.

Lastly, I leave you with a song and lyrics, by Ray Collins.. The YouTube video is here, the lyrics, preceded by some notes, are below:

1. As far as I can tell, like most republican songs, there are multiple versions- these lyrics should be about 99% accurate.
2. "Saoirse Go Deo" means "Forever Free."
3. The reference to Airey Neave. In general I don't approve of killing elected politicians, but Neave was almost 100% horrible- he was a Thatcherite Tory, may have been involved with dirty tricks against political opponents, and was calling for harsher measures in Northern Ireland, and was on the verge of becoming NI Minister.
4. "The Blanket" refers to a prison protest where republicans were demanding to be treated as POWs instead of as criminals.
5. Towards the end it refers to four of the 1981 hunger-strikers who died as part of the protest against criminalization. Patsy O'Hara said, as his last words, "let the fight go on."
6. When I sing this song it's dedicated to the early period of the INLA.
7. The Starry Plough is the flag of republican-socialism.

I'll sing you of an army brave
Who fights from the cradle to the grave
The people will be no longer slaves
With the INLA freedom fighters

Followers of Connolly
They fight to bring us liberty
Socialism we might see
With the INLA Freedom Fighters

Saorsie Go Deo is our cry
The Starry Plough, our flag flys high
England's tyranny we defy
We're the INLA freedom fighters

Rising throughtout the land
Connolly in head, gun in hand
The working class will take a stand
With the INLA freedom fighters

Fighting for the working-class
The priest condemns us at the Mass
That will not turn us from our task
As INLA freedom fighters

To make the Tory tyrants grieve
A Volunteer a bomb did leave
To kill Imperial Airey Neave
Twas they- the freedom fighters

Murder, torture, imprisonment
Our movement is still not spent
We vow to make our foes relent
We're the INLA freedom fighters

The Brits try to criminalize
Our comrades who on The Blanket lie
We'll make sure the struggle does not subside
We're the INLA freedom fighters

Captured guerrillas to prison are sent
As prisoners of war their time is spent
With heads unbowed and knees unbent
UNBROKEN Freedom Fighters

The news in 1981
A hunger-Strike for rights begun
A hollow victory was won
For ALL the Freedom Fighters

At British hands died Booby Sands
McCreesh and Hughes for the Five Demands
O'Hara's death, our symbol stands
We're INLA Freedom Fighters

Aye on beneath our banners high
To avenge our comrades who have died
"Let the fight go on" as Patsy said
We're the INLA freedom fighters

Fuck Fascism Before It Fucks You

(First, the title is taken from something (a poster or something) associated with the anti-fascist Oi! band The Oppressed)


UPDATE 4/14/16 This is a new version of this post. It's improved.

This is about Irish Republicans who today defend the acceptance of support from Nazi Germany by the IRA during World War II and is also about the neutrality of the Dublin state (what we now call “the Republic”) during that war. I will argue that: A) accepting aid from Nazi Germany was morally unacceptable; everyone should have fought Nazi Germany; B) Defending the WWII IRA about this and at the same time calling for a boycott of Israel, is anti-Semitic; C) Overwhelmingly, the history of republicans has been one of opposition to fascism; and D) defending the WWII IRA on this hurts Sinn fein's ability to generate support for a United Ireland.

When the IRA decided to accept aid from Nazi Germany, it was not the best idea they had (for the most part what I say in this article about what Nazi Germany did is with the benefit of hindsight, but as I'll explain, you could pretty much say the same things without that benefit). From what I've read, probably some small minority of the IRA were sympathetic to fascism, and probably some minority was anti-semitic (although I don't have much info to justify those statements, I have some, and odds are they're probably pretty accurate). Beyond that, I realize that their motivation was overwhelmingly about two ideas- "The enemy of my enemy is my friend," and "England's difficulty is Ireland's opportunity."

But it was still wrong. At the very least with hindsight it was wrong (and there are republicans, including many who I'm sure are genuine and good leftists, who, with the benefit of hindsight defend what the IRA did). But even with what they knew at the time, it was wrong. In general, Nazi Germany was an expansionist, fascist state. The unions had been smashed early in the regime, dissidents were rounded up, repressive (to put it mildly) laws were passed, democracy was done away with. The IRA received aid from the Nazis AFTER the war started, when it was clear how expansionist and aggressive the Nazis were.

Also, although probably no one actually predicted the Holocaust, there were reasons to believe that very bad things were going to happen to the Jews:

1. In Mein Kamph, Hitler made it clear how he felt about Jews. He talked about gassing thousands of them. I can't remember for sure and can't find a clear answer, but I'm pretty sure in that book he also referred to them as vermin.
2. There were tons of anti-Semitic propaganda, from the State, the Party and allies of the State.
3. The Nuremberg Laws (and others that came a little later) established (early in the regime) a kind of Apartheid for German Jews and, even worse, stripped them of their citizenship.
4. Kristalnacht was an orgy of violence against German Jews (which was well publicized) about a year before the IRA started accepting aid from the Nazis.
5. German Jews were sent to concentration camps.

People who more or less try to justify the IRA's behavior with the Nazis point to how evil the British have been with the Irish. Now, horrible things have been done. There was the general practice of kicking people off their land. The transportation of 10s of thousands who were sent to the Caribbean by Cromwell and worked under slave-like conditions until they earned their freedom or died (many or MOST died) (they usually lasted about 3-7 years). For more than 100 years, Catholics were stripped of more or less all the rights enjoyed by most or all Protestants. During the “Famine,” while 10-15% of the population starved to death and another 10-15% emigrated to avoid starving to death, food was being shipped out of Ireland to England. British policy in Ireland since the Famine has sucked. About 130 years later, during The Troubles, the Nationalist (Catholic) community went through a nightmare- probably the best way to briefly describe that is to say that while roughly 825+ Catholic civilians were killed in the years 1969 to 2005 by either loyalist paramilitaries or the security forces, a comparable scenario in America would have meant around 67,000 unarmed people of color killed by cops or Nazi skinheads (etc.) in the same time period. (A: I would guess that the actual number for that was probably somewhere around 7,000-8,000 (see the very bottom for where I got that); B: I'm not saying the racist system in this country wasn't, ideologically or programatiucally, capable of killing 67,000 people of color in those years if the "rebellion" among people of color here had been as militaristic as the one among Catholics in N. Ireland; but the reality is that as bad as it was for people of color here in those years, it was, in terms of deaths MUCH worse for Catholics in N. Ireland)

That doesn't make the Irish the most oppressed people on the face of the earth. During the Famine, the Brits weren't stopped from killing every single Catholic by foreign intervention- the deaths stopped because the potato blight ended. They certainly weren't rounding up Catholics and shooting them with the goal of extermination or something. What stopped Hitler from killing every single Jew in Europe (and he might not have stopped there) was the military defeat of Germany. And I think we all agree that Genocide is uniquely evil- it is the cultural equivalent of a species going extinct.

This is for the leftist republicans who defend what the IRA did (it’s not about Irish neutrality). Use your imagination- if Apartheid S. Africa were transported through space and time and was in the place of Germany and invaded other countries like Germany did and came into conflict with the UK, would you say the IRA was justified in accepting aid from Apartheid S. Africa? This will sound a little weird, but use even more imagination and do the same with Israel/Palestine. While you're thinking about that, read my post "In The Spirit of Robert Briscoe".  If you think what the WWII-era IRA did was okay and you aren't an anti-semite, go on Irish Indymedia, and using your real name, announce that you think the IRA would have been justified in exploiting "England's difficulty" in those two hypothetical situations (or, if you lack the imagination for this, say that republicans should take aid from Israel if it's offered (UPDATE 3/1/20 at the risk of playing switch and bate, I'm changing this- the old question is being replaced by: what if the Israeli government had offered the Provisional IRA money and arms in the 1970s?).

The South of Ireland was largely neutral (they leaned a tiny bit towards the Allies). But if Germany had won, they would have exerted serious influence over Ireland. If Ireland had done something Berlin didn't like, or if there had been a fascist insurgency, or if Hitler decided (and he almost definitely would have) that he wanted Ireland's Jews as well, the Wehrmacht or the Waffen-SS would have invaded. Pastor Martin Niemöller might have had some thoughts on this. He came up with the following poem (there's multiple versions, this is one) about the Nazi era in Germany:

First they came for the Jews, and I did nothing to help them, because I was not a Jew
Then they came for the Communists, and I did nothing to help them because I was not a Communist
Then they came for the trade-unionists and I did nothing to help them because I was not a trade-unionist.
Then they came for me, and there was no one left to help me

You could replace the words “Communists,” or “trade-unionists” with Czechoslovakia, Poland, etc. and use it to criticize Dublin (you could also leave it the way it is and use it to criticize Dublin). If you want to ignore the benefit of hindsight and say that up until the invasion of Poland, the appeasement strategy was a good idea, I disagree with you. After the invasion of Poland, well, I strongly disagree with you. At that point Ireland should have joined the Allies.

(in general I should say that both the US and UK had very poor records when it came to injustice generally; and when it came to fascism specifically, they could have done better, but, especially in the end, they were both better than Ireland when it came to defeating Nazi Germany)

There are at least two other compelling reasons why the South should have joined the Allies:

1. London offered to unite Ireland if Dublin helped with the war effort. Even if that was bullshit, if Ireland had helped, that would have made the Allied nations more receptive to what Ireland said about partition after the war.
2. Dublin should have helped the Allies to ensure the safety of Ireland's Jewish population.

(upon learning of the Holocaust in 1942, the Irish Prime Minister de Valera tried, unsuccessfully, to use diplomacy to save the lives of some Jews in occupied Europe. What he didn't do, upon learning of the Holocaust, was declare war on Germany)

Many would say that it was reasonable for the vast majority of the Irish to refuse to fight alongside the British because of what the Brits have done to Ireland. I’d respond by pointing out that the 442nd Regimental Combat Team saw more combat than any other similarly sized unit of the US Army in Europe during WWII. After the war, they were the most decorated Army unit its size in all US military history up to that point. They were entirely Japanese-American (I think some of the officers were white) at a time when about half of Japanese-America was in internment camps.

The leader of the IRA most associated with accepting aid from Nazi Germany was Sean Russell. There is a statue of him, and many republicans, including leftists, consider him a great republican, and last I heard SF commemorates his death. How much did he advance the struggle? How closer did Ireland come to being united and independent because of his work? By itself, the fact that he didn't move the struggle forward isn't enough to justify my feeling that he doesn't deserve to be honored- he tried. But when you add that he accepted aid from the DEVIL, and something else I'll explain shortly, he doesn't deserve to be honored. (I should make something clear- according to republicans who think he was wrong to accept Nazi Germany’s aid, he was not pro-Nazi or pro-German)

(I should say that from what I’ve been told, what the IRA did was not uncommon. Even Indian leftists did something similar. And it’s something that should be forgivable and forgettable as soon as SF stops defending it- if not, to a large degree, NOW. It was a long time ago and the Republican Movement  has not been doing anything similar since then. This is especially true when you consider  that when African National Congress supporters learned that the ANC did something similar, they don’t seem to have missed a beat. I’m referring to the ANC accepting aid from Indonesia both before and after 1994, while Indonesia maintained a genocidal occupation of East Timor. Mandela even tried selling them military hardware that could have been used against the East Timorese resistance and population. That's based on reports here, and here.

I should briefly state at some point that SF is generally very anti-fascist and very progressive- anti-homophobic, anti-racist, etc. Also, there are things here and there indicating that, USUALLY, SF is very much against anti-Semitism, it's just this combination of criticizing Israel and defending what the IRA did that's the problem.

Lastly, let me explain the last element of why Sean Russell should not be considered a great republican and why Sinn Fein should acknowledge that accepting aid from the Nazis was wrong.

I attended an event around 2000 where Martin A. Lee talked about his book "The Beast Reawakens." It's about the resurgence of fascism in Europe. I haven't read it, but I imagine it's good, if you ignore the forward by CONOR CRUISE O'BRIEN (for those who don't know, he was an Irish politician VERY hostile the Republican Movement). At the time I didn't know about the Cruiser's involvement, but it probably explains why Lee said what he said in response to my question. Shortly before this event I had decided that the Democratic Unionist Party was not too far from fascist, so during the Q&A I asked about that. He said he didn't know, but then mentioned the IRA and Nazi Germany and also apparently two small European fascist organizations admire the IRA (which must have everything to do with tactics and organization, all you have to do is read a single issue of SF's newspaper to know where their politics have been in recent decades (on the Left)). I'll be honest, between shock, and a related problem where 1% of the time my brain freezes, I didn't respond with the several facts I could have tossed out. But that doesn't change the following facts:
1) Accepting aid from Nazi Germany was wrong.
2) Even if I had responded, he was the expert on fascism, probably something like 1/4 of the audience still would have come away with a negative opinion of the IRA.
3) That sort of thing (people slanderously implying or saying that republicans are friendly with fascists) probably happens 5 times a month world-wide with small to large audiences, not to mention the Internet, books, etc.

SF really should acknowledge that accepting aid from the DEVIL was wrong, and should stop commemorating Russell (SF has been attacked quite publicly over that at least 1-2 times in the late 2000s). Although I've done some last-minute research on this, I'll have to take the same approach I've taken on a couple other issues. As far as commemorating Russell, for all I know, SF has stopped. If so, this is to discourage them from changing their minds. Also, in 2009 I found a Irish News article which reported that SF was being attacked over it's connections to the Nazis via Sean Russell. The effectiveness of those attacks would be lessened if SF would acknowledge that the IRA was wrong.

UPDATE 3/1/20 I recently did a LOT of searches (Google Advanced Search of the web, GAS of Sinnfein.ie, sinnfen.ie using their search engine) and I also contacted 2-3 SF politicians about this. I have found nothing new and heard nothing, and I assume SF still hasn't said the IRA was wrong to accept that aid. I found a 2004 Irish Times article where SF was attacked by Fianna Fail. The article quoted a SF spokesperson as saying: "I think Eoin Ryan should look at his own party's history before starting to throw around accusations ... considering Eamon de Valera signed a book of condolences on the death of Adolf Hitler."

********

How did the IRA fail to “Fuck fascism before it fucks you?” Besides accepting aid from Germany, they launched a small amount of probably negligable attacks on the British, and I think a small amount of information was sent to the Nazis (that last bit is from wikipedia). It’s possible that many or most of them might have been able to HELP the Allies in some way, and didn’t.

********

Referring back to the paragraph about Israel (while occupying the West Bank and Gaza) or Apartheid S. Africa taking the place of Nazi Germany, I think that the more republicans stop defending what the IRA did while supporting the Palestinians the more anti-semitism will be eroded among Irish people (and, at the 2002 National Conference of SF Youth, I met a SF supporter who supports the Palestinians and is an anti-Semite). UPDATE 2/20/20 As far as reasons for SF to do what I'm saying, see this.


UPDATE 10/7/16 In all fairness to SF, for better or worse, they recently have had what were supposed to be secret meetings with Likud. I am probably going to leave this post up anyway, but I felt that at the very least I should mention that, as it sort of erodes my concern that there are some weak and limited and mild anti-Semitic tendencies in SF (I would be very surprised if there is a single holocaust denier or user of the k-word in SF). Going back to the meetings, Unionist politicians were invited and the idea was to constructively push Likud to behave more like the Unionists have and move the Israeli-Palestinian peace process forward, based on hearing more about what worked in Ireland. I think this move also eliminates any concern that SF have the kind of progressive anti-Semites in their party that have a bad approach to supporting the Palestinians- they do or DID have the strain of anti-semitism I discussed in this post, but not one that is all about supporting the Palestinians.
UPDATE 1/28/17 You should also read a brief post here.

UPDATE 2/19/20 Read this. According to an Irish Times article, SF DID support the bill.

(I should also say that although I am relatively moderate, I am largely a supporter of the Palestinians)


What makes me confident about my statement “probably somewhere around 7,000-8,000”?

1. Between 1996 and 2005 according to the FBI there were 38 racist murders. I have read that the Department of Justice officially estimates that for every hate crime reported to the FBI there might be 20-30 that aren’t reported because not all local law enforcement agencies report such crimes to the FBI. So I came up with 1,140 for those years.
2. I heard that in a 12 month period during a 2014 (apparent) surge in police murders of black people including those of Eric Garner in NY, Tamir Rice in OH, and Michael Brown in MO among other highly publicized such cases, that around 200 black people armed or unarmed, had been killed by cops in America. Although I’m very open-minded about accusations that cops plant guns, this country also has a ridiculous number of guns.
3. Bear in mind that decades ago the number of people of color and the number of cops in this country were both smaller or much smaller than they are today.
4. If it’s worth much, about 10 years ago I read a huge amount of what the Southern Poverty Law Center put on their web-site in the previous 10-15 years. I also got an Ethnic Studies degree if that’s worth much.
5.There was little or no talk about “Brown Lives Matter” so I get the impression that very few Latinos/Latinas/Chicanos/Chicanas have been killed by cops in recent years (as far as I know, even Arpaio’s sheriff’s department in AZ didn’t kill a single such person) and that might reflect the situation in earlier decades. I have practically never heard of Asian-Americans being killed by cops. And if Native Americans were being killed at a high rate in the 80s and 90s I would have heard (a massive chunk of my major was Native American Studies). 

UPDATE 6/9/21 I just found a Democracy Now! story relevant to this. It's about the last 20 years, but there's a small overlap between that and the period I was looking at Catholics and people of color (1969-2005), and it's possible that what I said about this comparison is off a little. Bear in mind that the figure I refer to in item #2 above came from organizers of a Black Lives Matter protest.

The Spirit of Robert Briscoe

In my second post I said I'd do a post on Jews and anti-semitism in Ireland. In general, when I say I'll do a post on this or that, I will, it just might take 1-2 months. Anyway, this is that post.

I think I'm going to be especially lazy with this post and just do numbered items. Also, I barely know anything about Jews in Ireland before 1904.

1. There are 1,930 Jews in the Republic of Ireland according to the 2006 census. In N. Ireland in 1967, the population was estimated at 1,350; by 2004 this number had fallen to 130.

2. In 1904 there was a pogrom in Limerick. The Jewish community fled to Cork, and were planning to leave the country, but the people of Cork were so welcoming that many/most decided to stay (that part about Cork is Wikipedia).

3. Arthur Griffith, the founder of Sinn Fein who was a major leader of the Republic during the War of Independence, defended the Limerick Pogrom.

4. Robert Briscoe was an aide to the President of the Republic (Eamonn DeValera) during the War of Independence, spoke at public meetings in America, was a Quartermaster in the IRA, and was sent to Germany to get arms. Between this and the next item, especially if you give extra weight to Briscoe for being so senior and even if we ignore the likelihood there were a few other Jews in the Republican Movement, it seems safe to say that Irish Jews contributed disproportionately to the struggle during that War. He also fought on the anti-treaty side of the Civil War, and later went on to be a senior politician with Fianna Fail.

5. At one point when DeValera was on the run from the British during the War of Independence, the Chief Rabbi of Ireland hid de Valera in a safe-house.

6. There's a report that an IRA campaign in the 1920's against usury unfairly targeted Jews. UPDATE 10/13/10 This is exclusively from Wikipedia.

7. This is my favorite story about this subject. In the 1930s there was an Irish Jew who later on became Mayor of Cork. In the 30s he was a University student in Cork, One day his professor wouldn't let him speak in class because he was Jewish. He was upset and kind of inclined to forget about it, but told some people. The next time he was in class with that prof., there were a bunch of IRA members there, who forced the professor to let him speak. After that, he experienced no more anti-semitism on campus.

8. For some period in the 1930s, the President of SF was an anti-Semite.

9. From 1933 until 1939, Ireland's Ambassador to Germany was an anti-Semite, and blocked most Jews from immigrating to Ireland during that period. Because of his pro-Nazi attitude he was sacked in 1939. His family were quite different. Those Jews who did make it to Ireland were directed by the Red Cross to cafes owned by his family where they got a free breakfast.

10. The IRA accepted aid from Nazi Germany. I'll do another post on that soon (that post is here), but for now I'll say this:

A: It was probably overwhelmingly motivated by the ideas that "The enemy of your enemy is your friend," and "England's difficulty is Ireland's opportunity."
B: It may have also been motivated by anti-semitism which probably claimed a large minority of the IRA.
C: I have read nothing to indicate that it resulted in attacks or anything of the sort on Ireland's Jewish community.
D: To put it mildly, it was NOT their brightest move.
E: First read this. In an Irish Times article I just read, I learned that Sinn Fein DID support the bill.

UPDATE 2/5/09 10b. When the Irish Prime Minister learned, in 1942, of the Holocaust, he tried to use diplomacy to save Jews, but it didn't work.

11. In 1982, apparently in connection with the Israeli invasion of Lebanon, there was some vandalism of a synagogue in Dublin (Wikipedia).

12. The last 10-15 years at least twice and probably every year, SF leaders have attended Holocaust Memorial events in Belfast.

13. About 2004, for about 1-2 years, the Chair of Dublin SF was Justin Moran, who I know is against anti-semitism.

14. This one will require some explanation, even if I keep it relatively brief. First, I support the Palestinians.
A: I'm halfway between supporting a single-state solution and a two-state solution. As far as I can tell, there's a fair amount of support for the former among Palestinians, and I'm not sure how viable the latter is.
B: I support some kind of continuation of Israel as a homeland for Jews, but not in a way that negatively affects the Palestinians, and I have a problem with states that are defined by religion and/or ethnicity.
C: There are serious human rights problems with how the Palestinians are treated.
D: I'm not familiar with the exact details of the peace process, and am open to the possibility that there are flaws in the approach of Fatah/PLO, and I've heard there are some other problems with Fatah. Nonetheless I generally support Fatah, considering the alternative.
E: Hamas can go fuck itself. I have plenty of reason to believe that something like AT LEAST a large minority of their military activities (ignoring fights with Palestinian rivals) are aimed at intentionally killing civilians, and since they're not going after Palestinian-Israelis, it's Jews they're going after. And their religious fundamentalist politics and social conservatism are horrible.
UPDATE 2/5/09 Whatever mistakes Fatah has made, Hamas military activities must have alienated huge amounts of international and Israeli public opinion from supporting the Palestinians- those people shouldn't react that way, but they almost certainly have and that would be predictable. Also, if continuing the armed struggle is a good idea (and I am not sure it is) why doesn't Hamas limit their armed operations against Israel to the military and destroying, in ways that limit the possibility of civilian casualties, commercial and non-military government property (that's what about 99.5% of the IRA's operations were like)?

I support an economic and political boycott of Israel, but I'm not so sure of a cultural or academic boycott. It's not that I think it will be anti-Semitic, but I think it can encourage anti-semitism (comparing this to South Africa is not reasonable- there wasn't an historic, current, and global problem of bigotry towards white S, Africans). With that in mind, when I heard that the Belfast chapter of the Ireland Palestine Solidarity Campaign (and in Belfast I'm pretty sure they're mostly republican and probably something like half SF) was going to protest an Israeli dance company's performance in Belfast, I was concerned. In all fairness, Israeli government money was used to arrange the performance, which might be what prompted IPSC to protest, but I was still uneasy about it. I considered writing a letter to the (SF-aligned) West Belfast community paper I heard about this in, but wasn't sure. I contacted 5 people, all of them supporters of the Palestinians who are either Jewish or definitely against anti-semitism. I think only one responded, and said that I shouldn't worry about it.

More generally, there is a huge level of support for the Palestinians in Ireland, especially among republicans. My theory, based on a small amount of research and things I've heard from sources I trust, is that of American leftists (and progressives) who support the Palestinians, there's probably some small minority that are anti-Semitic (it's probably all non-religious and non-racial, it's the "New Anti-semitism"). I have reason to believe that it's probably the same in Ireland (I met a left-wing anti-semite in Ireland). UPDATE 5/05/09 For a discussion of left-wing anti-Semitism, see this.

As far as I can tell, SF is much closer to Fatah than they are to Hamas. On the other hand, a video I found on YouTube for a song about Ogra Shinn Fein (SF Youth) included two images of Hamas members.

UPDATE 2/19/20 In all fairness to SF, for better or worse, they recently have had what were supposed to be secret meetings with Likud. It sort of erodes my concern that there are some weak and limited and mild anti-Semitic tendencies in SF (I would be very surprised if there is a single holocaust denier or user of the k-word in SF). Going back to the meetings, Unionist politicians were invited and the idea was to constructively push Likud to behave more like the Unionists have and move the Israeli-Palestinian peace process forward, based on hearing more about what worked in Ireland. I think this move also eliminates any concern that SF have the kind of progressive anti-Semites in their party that have a bad approach to supporting the Palestinians.

15. In 1999, a British Holocaust Denier, David Irving had the brilliant idea of giving a lecture at the University of Cork. Apparently he hadn't heard about how Cork republicans feel about anti-Semites (see #2 and #7) and wanted to give a lecture on the subject "Myths of World War II." A lot of young leftists, including members of SF, physically forced the cancellation of the event by fighting with the police.

16. UPDATE 2/2/0/20 See this (considering what I typed last night on this issue the timing is amazing).

17. UPDATE 2/20/20 I forgot to add this years ago.


That's almost it for Ireland. There's two items about American support for the Nationalist community and the RM.

1) In the late 1990s, during the first incarnation of my group Students for Justice in N. Ireland at the University of Colorado at Boulder, for a year or so, one of the other main people involved was Morgan Carroll, who is currently a very popular and very liberal Democratic State Senator in Colorado. She's an Irish-American Jew.

2) When I proposed a resolution about N. Ireland at the 2001 National Conference of the Young Democratic Socialists, it was defeated (LONG COMPLICATED story), but the two people who were critical in either increasing it's chances of getting passed or rescuing it after it was defeated (it was later voted on by the leadership, who said no) were Jewish (the former was Gabe Kramer, the latter was Erin (now Eliyanna) Kaiser).


Going back to Ireland, I have a feeling that, considering everything above, and even considering how in response to republican support for the Palestinians, Loyalists have recently expressed support for Israel, Jews have contributed in some ways to the republican struggle the last four decades. I'd be surprised if there was a single Jewish member of the Provisional IRA, but I'd also be surprised if Jews haven't often given their higher or lower preferences in elections to SF.

UPDATE 2/15/09 I just did more thinking about the way that some leftist supporters of the Palestinians support Hamas and either support or refuse to condemn Hamas's military activities which focus on trying to kill Jewish Israeli civilians. There's one more problem with that. It kind of dehumanizes Jews, it fuels hatred of Jews among left-wing supporters of the Palestinians (I'm mostly thinking of America, Europe, similar countries, but to some degree the entire world). The thing is, the far-right supports the Palestinians, although that's not because they aren't racist towards Arabs it's because A: they simply hate Jews more, and B: they figure it's a good way to recruit stupid people. There's material on YouTube that's anti-Israel from the Nazis, they have concerts that have anti-Israel themes. And there's gotta be some tiny chunk of leftists being seduced by that, probably in combination with something else, something that makes them lean towards racist or homophobic (a large chunk of the far-right have positions on labor, the environment and globalization similar to the left, which makes this recruitment more possible). The refusal to condemn the attacks on Israeli civilians makes this recruitment more likely.

UPDATE 5/17/17 I thought I should repeat here something I've said 3-4 times elsewhere on this blog, something that might be the most important thing to explain if you want to defeat the actual anti-Semites among us Palestine supporters. And that is that Jewish-Americans are only a tiny minority of those Americans who strongly support Israel, and the rest have their own interests/agendas and not some kind of allegiance or compliance to a majority of the Jewish community as their reason(s) for supporting Israel. There are tons of Christians motivated by obscure Biblical reasons to support Israel and there are tons of people (both atheists and Christians) who support Israel for foreign policy reasons (their views of Israel's role in the Cold War and more recently the "War on Terror"). And on a related note, there is a growing minority of Jewish-Americans who are critical of Israel in support of the Palestinians.

The Black and the Green

(As far as the anti-bigotry part of this blog, I decided at some point early on that I wanted to work around the edges of battling bigotry, offering ideas and information that most people are unaware of but which might help them here and there with anti-bigotry work. So that’s why there are a lot of posts that seem a little weird, including this one)

There seems to be a popular image of the American who's interested in N. Ireland from a republican/nationalist/human rights perspective. There's certainly some truth to it- probably about 90% of us are white, overwhelmingly Irish-American. But there are some problems with this. First, it simply isn't accurate and ignores the contributions made by (depending on what level of activity we're talking about) probably something like 200-125,000 people of color the last 40 years (maybe half those two numbers, but on the other hand, we are talking about a population of tens of millions and 40 years). It also has contributed to the failure by the American Left to take the issue seriously (by my estimate, on average left-wing organizations did a lot less than they should have done the last 40 years). It has also probably led many Irish-Americans to think that people of color have done nothing, and although that assumption doesn't justify anything, it has probably fueled the racism that many Irish-Americans have.

First, Brian Dooley, in 1998, wrote a book called "Black and Green: The Fight For Civil Rights in Northern Ireland and Black America." It examines the connections between African-Americans and Irish people in Ireland, and the significantly different (although far from universally negative) relationship between African-Americans and Irish-Americans (he spoke on this topic at an SJNI event we organized in 1998). I'm tempted to post here everything I remember, but I think I'll just hit the major points and encourage you to read the book yourself.

1. Frederick Douglas had a great relationship with Daniel O'Connell, the leader of Nationalist Ireland around the 1830s. He later had a great relationship with Charles Stewart Parnell, who more or less replaced O'Connell about 2-3 decades later. Douglas spoke in favor of Irish Nationalist concerns, and O'Connell encouraged Irish-Americans to support abolitionism, something which cost him a lot of support in America.

2. Marcus Garvey was a big supporter of Sinn Fein and the IRA during the War of Independence.

4. The Black Panthers were very interested in N. Ireland. When one member of People's Democracy, the militant, left-wing and student part of the NI Civil Rights Movement, came to America, she was made an "Honorary Black Panther."

5. After the Bloody Sunday killings in 1972 (when the British Army killed 14 civil rights demonstrators in Derry) the Southern Christian Leadership Conference sent a delegation to attend the funerals.

6. Angela Davis is very interested in Northern Ireland. I can't remember if this comes from her time as a Black Panther or specifically from when Bernadette Devlin visited her in 1969 when she was in jail. She, at one point went out of her way to mention NI whenever she spoke publicly. Specifically in 1994 (and this doesn't come from the book, it comes from a tape of a lecture she gave in Harlem at a Black Studies conference), she compared African-Americans who are unconcerned about NI with those who are pro-life, homophobic, or anti-union. (UPDATE 3/26/16 A slightly different version of this is found online here, in a paragraph towards the top that starts with the word "beware."

A few other things about people of color in America and the North of Ireland, from my personal experiences and other sources besides the book:

1. Bill Fletcher Jr. in the last 15 years has held senior positions (at one time or another) in the AFL-CIO (as assistant to President John Sweeeney 95-2000), the Black Radical Congress (National Co-Chair, something like 2 years starting in 2001), and TransAfrica Forum (President, 20021-2004 I think?). When he was in Boston, for some time I think in the late 80s and early 90s he had a group called Boston Black and Green. At some point he made a trip to the North and spoke at some event, I think in Belfast and I think it was SF. He also spoke at an event in 2002 for Students for Justice in N. Ireland (he was there to speak at a different event for another group I was involved in, but agreed to speak at the NI event for free).

2. In recent years, basically the last 15 or so, a major leader of the American Indian Movement in Colorado has been Glenn Morris. Maybe because he's actually half Irish-American, he's very interested in NI, and spoke at an SJNI event we organized in 1998.

3. I knew a Chicano activist (Leo Griep-Ruiz) in Denver who was very interested. Once, in the late 1990s, when he interviewed (for a very popular local radio program) an American who spends most of his time in Chiapas, Mexico with the Zapatistas, they talked about connections between Chiapas and Northern Ireland (the guy with the Zapatistas had been in the North shortly before that). In 1998 he also did another N. Ireland interview on local radio (he interviewed Brian Dooley). UPDATE 3/3/09 As I mentioned in another post, Leo also introduced SF's rep. in America when she spoke at the University of Colorado at Boulder sponsored by SJNI in 1999.

4. At an SJNI event in 2003 we had an African-American Studies Prof., George Junne, give a talk about the connections between Frederick Douglas and Ireland.

UPDATE 2/23/18    5. In 1998 or 1999 I went to a fundraiser for the Chiapas Coalition- it was in Denver and for a group that supported the Zapatistas in Mexico. Because it was on Cinco de Mayo (May 5th) I asked if I could say something about the death that day in 1981 of IRA hunger-striker Bobby Sands. They let me and the response, from the crowd of about 200 people, was very positive.

6. When I visited the Pat Finucane Centre (they're a small organization with two offices in NI, but they're amazing, I'll do a post on them soon, give them lots of money) in 2002 an African-American woman whose husband was working on the Bloody Sunday Inquiry was volunteering there (I think full-time).

7. UPDATE 3/17/20 See this, an article I found when it was published and that I've linked to from another post.

8. UPDATE 3/20/20 In the late 1990s a US Representative, Donald Payne from NJ, sponsored legislation in the House that would ban the sale of plastic bullets to the UK. He had traveled to the North and I feel safe assuming that some US corporation was selling the plastic bullets used in the North (or he was just really cool and pro-active, but I bet they were being sold to the UK). (Payne is Black) 

9. UPDATE 10/18/23 In 2002 the Anti-Racism Commission of the Democratic Socialists of America made me a representative of the COMMISSION (not DSA in general) when I went to the National Conference of Sinn Fein Youth that year. The head of that commission was Duane Campbell, a Chicano.

There's a handful of other minor examples I could give, but I won't. I want to move on to the next point.

Although I have generally been following events involving the North and SF to a moderate degree, and I did some searches on the web-site of Irish Northern Aid the group in America that supports SF (ignoring Friends of Sinn Fein and also groups that are significantly less officially in support), I have to take an approach to this similar to the one I did with the NY City St. Patrick's Day parade. I'll assume, based partly on some limited research I've done recently and how familiar I am with stuff up until about 3-4 years ago, that things are as I suspect; and even if they have changed (probably no more than a little), I'll still say this to hopefully make them stay that way.

SF and their American allies (I could probably say the same about some other Irish/Irish-Amerian groups, but I'm less familiar and I care less since I support them less) focus too much on Irish-America. In relation to America, SF frequently talks about Irish-America and only occasionally reaches out to people of color. In 1998 I read an organizing manual for INA (also known as NORAID), and it mentioned groups that INA Units should connect with. It mentioned Irish-Americans, Irish immigrants, I think 1-2 other groups. It said nothing about people of color (I'm almost certain it also said nothing about women's groups, LGBT groups, the Left (although there's a decent chance it did mention unions)). That's not to say INA have done NOTHING on this subject. In 1998 they published a report I had written about some events in my area that I organized for Brian Dooley, and provided a link for people who wanted to buy his book. There's a couple other tiny things I'm aware of, probably dozens nationwide the last 15 years that I'm not aware of. But that organizing manual is a problem, and the searches I just did on their web-site came up with nothing relevant.

I think that to one degree or another, there's a widespread perception outside (and also INSIDE) that political community that works on NI (from a republican and/or nationalist and/or human rights perspective) that people of color are simply not involved at all, which to some degree means that they are not getting the credit they deserve. Even worse, that probably fuels racism among Irish-Americans (it might have a similar effect on Irish people in Ireland).

At the 2002 National Conference of Sinn Fein Youth, I was representing the Anti-Racism Commission of the Democratic Socialists of America. At the first event, which was a panel discussion that included two semi-senior SF members, I said during the discussion period that SF should reach out to people of color in America more (I also said the same thing about the Left in America, I might do a post on that some other time).

First, I think SF has probably little potential of broadening it's support among Irish-Americans. Setting aside the fact that as people die or drop out others will be born and get involved, I don't see them getting many new supporters by focusing on Irish America. The thing is, even considering that since they have their own issues it's unlikely more than a few will throw themselves into it, maybe something like 2,500 people of color will, to one degree or another do something if SF reached out to them more (I'm including attending events where it's a good thing if there are more people, such as when the media are present or politicians, especially Federal ones are present) (the figure of 2,500 would be spread out over something like 2-5 years; the point is that a lot of people would do something). Also, and I might go into detail about this at some point, but in general the last 40 years, all Americans who are interested in politics (excluding those who DID do a fair amount and some to the right of center who I don't want to see involved anyway) should have done much more than they did on NI.

I'd also point out, and I think this is a little bit relevant, people of color in America have a much better idea of what Catholics in the North have gone through than Irish-Americans have- that is, their experiences are similar.

Second, reaching out to people of color more would probably increase the credit that those who already do work on it get. Connected to that, and I'm not saying their absence justifies anything, and it only slightly explains anything, but if more people of color were involved, that would erode racism among Irish-Americans (and once again, among some of the population in Ireland). In fact, even if the response is only moderate, just reaching out might have a positive effect on racism.

Lastly, the involvement of more people of color would help involve the American Left more. Although nothing justifies the failure of the Left to do what they should have done the last 40 years, and there's a lot of things that explain it, one aspect is their mostly correct belief that Americans who work on that issue are entirely White. And I think most SFers would agree that it would be a good thing if the American Left got more involved. Although I wouldn't say we're at the peak of our power, we do have numbers to offer, we won't be turned off the way most Americans will be by SF's left-wing politics, once the Left is educated about it they're probably more likely than the average American to think positively about the IRA's past campaign (and even at this point that could help, if people understand that the IRA was almost always justified in what they did).

(to one degree or another, depending on how involved they already have been, I would say similar stuff about other groups in America, not just people of color)

(even with my limited knowledge of recent events, I can make a pretty good arguement that there's still a need for people to work on N. Ireland, I'll post something about that soon)

Let me leave you with one of my favorite stories. In 98/99 I was at an anti-prisons protest in Colorado (it was part of a conference). I had a petition in support of former IRA members facing extradition or deportation from America. At one point I went up to two people, one white, one black. The white guy said, "I'm Irish-American, but I don't support the IRA," and refused to sign it. The black guy said, "I'll sign it."

UPDATE 2/21/09
1. If more people of color and leftists (as well as progressives and liberals) get involved supporting SF, in INA for example, probably most of the conservative and racists (even in INA, there are probably some people who are a little racist) will stay around because they support the national liberation struggle/Peace Process, so SF will probably come out ahead on supporters.

2. As far as people to the right of center being involved, I have mixed feelings about that, and the further to the right you are, the less I want you involved, but I've always believed that involvement on this issue has the potential to nudge people towards the left (people who support anti-discrimination measures in the North might be easier to convince about supporting them in America), so I almost DO want them involved.

UPDATE 2/26/09 Eroding racism in the Irish American community will result in fewer people voting GOP which will be good for SF because it's pretty clear that the Dems are better on N. Ireland than the GOP is.

There's a related post here. and one here.

For an explanation of why I believe that ALL politically active Americans to the left of center should have done more, see this.

I Still Hate Sarah Palin

First, someone should make a T-shirt with the title of this post. I don't care if they get rich and I don't. I did a search and I don't think there's such a t-shirt. It's partly inspired by a T-shirt I saw worn by the National Organizer of Sinn Fein Youth, which says "I Still Hate Thatcher."

During the last 2 months of the election, I followed the election VERY closely- unfortunately I wasn't doing so well and did basically nothing to help, but if I had had a popular blog at the time, Obama would have won by an additional point. Among the other things that he should have hammered McCain/Palin on was the rape kits in Wasilla. I'll asssume most of you have heard about, what I want to do is provide some evidence (which I don't think many Palin critics or the media mentioned) that effectively rebuts those who were trying to debunk the criticism of Palin on the rape-kits. There was an article in 2000, in the Mat-Su Valley Frontiersman, the paper for what is basically the County that Wasilla is in. In it, Palin's police cheif admits that the rape victims' insurance companies were being billed, and since he doesn't say otherwwise, I assume that when they didn't have insurance, the victim got the entire bill (odds are they had to pay a co-pay or something and also, this billing of their insurance might have an effect on their premium).

UPDATE 10/1/13  THE ARTICLE IN THE MAT-SU PAPER IS GONE FROM THE SITE BUT A SIMILAR ARTICLE IS HERE.

Invisible Comrades 12/27/14 UPDATED

** In the Winter 1991 edition of The Captive Voice, a publication by and for IRA POWs, an article was published with the title: "INVISIBLE COMRADES: GAYS AND LESBIANS IN THE STRUGGLE." It was written by a gay Volunteer who was calling on the Republican Movement to recognize the contribution made by gay and lesbian Volunteers.

Although there is, of course, homophobia in both parts of Ireland, it's not nearly as bad as most would think considering the island-wide Catholic majority, and most would be surprised to learn where the greatest source is.

First, in the Republic of Ireland, the Parliament is on the verge of creating Civil Partnerships, and both Sinn Fein and the Green Party support gay marriage. In Northern Ireland, Civil Partnerships exist. UPDATE 6/15/17 About two years ago same sex marriage was legalized in the Republic of Ireland.

In the Republic, the President (who is associated with Fianna Fail), who is in the middle of her second 7-year term, was supportive in the 1970s of the movement to decriminalize homosexuality. I'm not too familiar with the details, but about 10 years ago an American socialist said that gay rights in the Republic were better than they were in America. In recent years all political parties have expressed support for civil partnerships and a majority of Irish people in polls have supported gay marriage.

**Here’s a summary of the current status of gay rights in Ireland.

**In Northern Ireland, the situation is probably a bit worse for LGBT people. First, here’s a summary of the current status of gay rights in the UK.

The thing that might surprise people is that the Nationalist community (which is almost the same thing as the Catholic community) is actually much less homophobic than the Unionist/Loyalist (basically Protestant) community. In a 2008 N. Ireland Life and Times survey, the answers to the question, is it wrong for two people of the same sex to have sex? broke down like this:

-----------------Catholic Protestant
Always wrong--------31%--------58%
Almost always wrong 5%--------10%
Wrong only sometimes 8%-------6%
not wrong at all----31%--------14%
Can't choose--------25%--------12%

On the Catholic side:

1. During the 1981 Irish Republican Hunger-Strike, a credible source says that there was an LBG (I doubt the T was added back then) caucus among supporters of the hunger-strikers, and this source, who was a member, said nothing about them being unwelcome. The source also says, and I don't think this is true, that Sinn Fein's pro-gay rights position dates back to that point. UPDATE 2/3/09 My source on this tells me that in 1981, SF expressed opposition to homophobia in their newspaper.

2. At the very latest, SF adopted a pro-gay rights position in 1996. Today they support gay marriage.

3. Gearóid Ó hEára was the SF Mayor of Derry in 2004 and was known at some point to have been a big supporter of the Rainbow Project.

4. At some point, I think in 1999, the SF Deputy Mayor of Belfast did something along the lines of meeting with gay rights activists.

5. In 2002, when I attended the National Conference of SF Youth (or Ogra Shinn Fein as they're known), I criticized SF for marching in the NY City St. Patrick's Day parade (there's a boycott of the parade because LBGT organizations are not allowed to march- as far as I can tell, almost all Democratic Party politicians boycott it). Afterwards 2-3 people who were senior memebers told me they agreed. Also, although this might have had more to do with something, else, I was invited to attend the private part of the conference, suggesting that most/all of them agreed with me.

6. In 2001, Gerry Adams, President of SF, gave some introductory remarks at a gay rights event in West Belfast. He was supposed to leave after his remarks, but stayed to participate fully in the panel.

7. Someone involved with the Irish Lesbian and Gay Organization in 1999 (at the time, the main or only such group in NY City) told me that there were reports of gay ex-POWs (former IRA members) being harrassed.

8. Just recently I learned of a situation in a Catholic part of Derry where two gay men were being seriously harrassed- a SF leader was speaking out against it.

9. Around 2001/2002, when a Priest in republican West Belfast came out, he announced he was retiring. Some significant chunk of his parishioners asked him to not resign.

10. A search on the web-site of SF's paper An Phoblacht found 171 pages that include the word "gay." Their archive probably goes back at least 10 years.

**11. In a disusssion on this subject on Irish Indymedia (which is far from dominated by SF members and is basically a left-wing forum), the general consensus was that, besides the NY City St. Patrick's Day Parade, SF is perhaps the best party in Ireland on gay rights.

12. In a recent gay pride parade in Belfast 2 senior SF members, I believe it was both of their MEPs, marched.

12. Although they seem to be a step or two behind SF all the time, the Social Democratic and Labour Party (the more moderate party which until 2001 was the larger of the two) is okay-good on gay rights. In 1994 their MPs refused to support lowering the age of consent for gay sex so it would be equivelent to that for straight sex. I would also be surprised if they support gay marraige. And, sometime around 1999, someone wrote a letter to the Irish News suggesting John Hume (who lead the SDLP from the 1979 until 2001) viewed gay people as having some kind of disease. On the other hand, in a recent Belfast Gay Pride parade, their youth wing carried a banner. A search of their web-site found 17 items with the word "gay," a few of which clearly supported gay rights (they probably all did, but I didn't look at all of them). They're also a member of the Socialist International, and even though they don't really belong there (I'll probably do a post on that soon), the support for gay rights in the SI has probably rubbed off on them. (UPDATE 11/17/12 in all fairness and to mark his passing, see this about a veteran NI gay rights organizer who was also in the leadership of the SDLP)

On the Unionist side:

1. In 1977 the Democratic Unionist Party (who, at the time represented about 20% of the Unionist/Loyalist community and today represents about 60% of that community) launched a compaign to unsuccessfully counter an effort to decriminalize homosexuality in N. Ireland. The campaign was titled "Save Ulster From Sodomy."

2. In 2004, Tony Blair post-poned a vote in the British Parliament on gay marraige so that the six MPs from the DUP could attend- they all planned on voting against, and really didn't want to miss the vote.

3. In June 2008, Iris Robinson, who is a DUP MP and is married to the Leader of the DUP, Peter Robinson, said that homosexuals should seek counseling and that homosexuality was more vile than child sexual abuse. (In relation to this incident, one of her critics was a leading SF member, Catriona Ruane).

4. In 2005, a DUP candidate for the Northern Ireland Assembly, Paul Berry was suspended from the party and later resigned. There was a report that he had met a man for a massage, a man he had allegedly met through a gay chatroom.

5. I'm not aware of anything specific about the Ulster Unionist party. There's not a single page on their web-site that mentions the word "gay" or the word "homosexual."

6. The Progressive Unionist Party who represent something like 1-2% of the Unionist/Loyalist community, have expressed opposition to homophobia, and there are two such items on their web-site (although in some ways they are better than the two main unionist parties, they are connected to a loyalist paramilitary and I wouldn’t send them any money or anything).

Now that that's over with, I wanted to address an aspect of this that has concerned me greatly. SF, despite being offically in support of gay rights, have had senior members march in the New York City St. Patrick's Day Parade.

I should say at this point that it is not real clear to me if SF have had people marching in the parade in recent years. The last four years I have only read an average of about 50 articles from various sources a week in relation to Northern Ireland and/or SF (overall, the last 12 years it has been about 125 a week). I've done internet searches on this subject and am waiting to hear back from an NYC group called Irish Queers. If I find out for sure, I'll post it as an update at the top of this article.

Even if SF has stopped marching, I am still going to address this, partly because a small part of it has nothing to do with SF and partly because something could change that would see SF go back to marching in the parade- and if they have stopped marching, is it just a scheduling issue (or is it a boycott?); have they issued a statement in support of the boycott? Are they attending the alternative, inclusive (and progressive) Queens parade? After doing some searching it seems like they have issued no statement, nor are they attending the Queens parade.

So here goes.

First, I have supported the boycott four times and three of those times I criticsed SF for marching in the parade. The first time, in 1999 I had a letter published in the Irish News (the largest paper read by the Nationalist community), in which I criticised SF. Then there was that thing in 2002 at the National Conference of OSF. In 2003, the group I had going at CU-Boulder, Students for Justice in N. Ireland, adopted a statement supporting the boycott. That statement is at the bottom of this. We also put out, along with copies of the statement, some gay rights buttons I had left-over from something else. In 2004, I also criticised SF on this on Irish Indymedia.

I should say that, with three exceptions, I have little trouble with SF ditching their left-wing politics when they interact with Americans (which they sometimes do). The first exception was in 1997 when I made an ass of myself by over-reacting to SF being less than socialist in one incident. The other two I don't appologize for criticizing them, and one of those is this parade issue. It's about civil rights (if the organizers say they're a private organization, I would point to the effort to desegregate restaurants in the American South), it's about bigotry, it's about whether or not you can be Irish and gay at the same time.

To those who say (and although I didn't have much of a response at the time, I have heard this) that the parade is about conservative Catholicism, and therefore it makes sense to exclude gays, I'd say this. First, I'm not sure I believe that the parade organizers, the Ancient Order of Hibernians, actually do define it in those terms, I think it's just an excuse to exclude Irish people they don't like. Also, if it is defined by religion, it has to be the ONLY St. Pat's Parade like that in the whole world. Lastly, if it is defined by conservative Catholicism, what is SF doing in the parade? SF isn't defined by religion and it certainly isn't conservative. It supports gay rights, includes Protestants, and is overwhelmingly secular.

Having said that, I feel like stepping up my criticism of SF on this. As I've said, I've looked into this, and the odds that I've missed something and SF are doing the right thing is pretty low, and even if they currently are, I want to make sure that doesn't change. Recently I became, if possible, even more passionate about opposing bigotry. (I should also mention that I've done a ton of work to support SF (and even more that was about supporting the Nationalist community in general), some evidence for that is on two (old) web-sites you can find via my profile on this blog))

Some SF supporters in America are gay- for example, as far as I can tell, the Irish LGBT groups in NYC are overwhelmingly Irish republican, probably for the most part in support SF. When SF marches in that parade, they send a signal to their American supporters, including people who aren't familiar with SF's actual position on gay rights. Conversely, boycotting the parade would send a much better signal.

Lastly let me explain that SF can't really claim to want to stay out of it. First, in practice if not on paper, they're an internationalist party. Second, they've already involved themselves by marching in the parade in years past and have done damage that needs to be made up for.

UPDATE 3/25/09 As far as SF and internationalism, I want to say something now that I was going to save for discussion. When SF allows their internationalism to stop at the shores of America, as they do some of the time (perhaps about 1/2 of the time), they probably think that all Americans are spoiled brats, so that's okay. Well, that's not true. To offer a sort of extreme but relevant example, there are working-class gay people of color, who are not spoiled. Many Irish-Americans (and especially Irish-American supporters of SF who are homophobic and might abandon that homophobia in connection with the parade being organized inclusively and/or SF sending the right signals on this) interact with these working-class gay people of color, and that interaction often doesn't work out so well for the gay working-class people of color.

Also, whatever support SF loses as a result of a boycott would probably be made up for by more support from gay people, liberals, and leftists. UPDATE 2/21/09 Odds are that a lot of the homophobes will stay around because of the national liberation struggle/Peace Process, so SF will probably come out ahead.

For more on SF's support, see the related post here. 

UPDATE 5/18/09 I was just told by Irish Queers, one of the NYC Irish LGBT groups, that SF has not marched since the late 1990s (apparently because of preassure from LGBT activists in Ireland) (I know they marched in '99). The thing is, when I assumed they were still marching when I was at the 2002 Nat'l Conference of OSF and I raised this issue, no one said they had stopped. Same thing in 2004 when this was an issue on indymedia.ie. I feel a little stupid for part of this post and a related one that talks about the parade, but I can sort of blame that on how the OSFers responded, and how the Indymedia discussion went. Also, I feel more confident at this point that they have not called for inclusion and marched in the Queens event. If they haven't marched since 1999, I'm almost tempted to say otherwise, but I have a theory that when you do damage you need to make up for it, by, in this case, calling for inclusion and marching in the Queens event (I could easily say that about the statements I made in 2002 and 2004, which more or less also referred to those two actions, and between late 2001 and 2005 I was following events involving SF so much (an average of 150 articles a week) that it was fairly safe for me to assume that if SF WERE taking those two actions I would have heard- based on what people said at that conference and on Indy and some recent research I have done, I am almost certain that they are not taking those two actions, but would appreciate being corrected if I'm wrong). (another part of this is that I had assumed that if SF decided that marching in the parade was wrong, they would make up for the damage they had done by doing the right things on calling for inclusion and attending the Queens event- and I would have heard about that, at the very least in 2002 or 2004)

I think that's it. Below is the SJNI statement (at the time, I think there were two Irish LGBT groups, but I must not have been aware of the second one (Irish Queers) when I wrote this). (I'm not real sure, but I think the statement at one point leaves out a term that I probably should have included- transgendered)

UPDATE!!! 12/27/14 There has been, starting last Spring, some good news about this, read about it here.
 UPDATE 3/15/15 I got a little too excited about the inclusion a gay group that isn't part of the Irish and Irish-American communites in NYC. See this for some more about that.

UPDATE!! 2/20/17 It sounds like it's finally over. See this.

Statement on the NY City St. Patrick's Day Parade and Homophobia
Students for Justice in N. Ireland

For more than a decade now the Irish Lesbian and Gay Organization (ILGO) has been barred from participating in the New York City St. Patrick's Day Parade. This has been the policy of the parade organizers, the Ancient Order of Hibernians, an American Catholic fraternal order which is exclusively Irish-American and male.

We believe this is based exclusively on homophobia and as such we reject it. Even worse, the AOH is essentially saying that you cannot be Irish and non-heterosexual, they are effectively stripping many Irish and Irish-Americans of their national, ethnic, and cultural identities. St. Patrick's Day is supposed to be a celebration of Irish heritage. It is not and should not be defined by Catholicism. Many different groups and prominent individuals are invited to participate, some of whom are neither Catholic nor Irish. Certainly an organization representing a part of the Irish community as ILGO does should be included. In Ireland itself, there is visible participation by the LGBT community in St. Patrick's Day celebrations.

As a group that works to promote human and civil rights in N. Ireland we admire the spirit and work of Bernadette Devlin-McAliskey in her past leadership of the N. Ireland Civil Rights Movement. We also admire her willingness to stand up to those Irish-Americans who supported civil rights for Catholics in N. Ireland but not for African-Americans. We cannot be silent in the face of homophobia which attempts to strip Irish and Irish-American gays, lesbians, bi-sexuals and transexuals of their national, ethnic, and cultural identities.

We would also support the City of New York taking over the organization of the parade. Considering the broad appeal the parade has, it's extensive use of City resources (streets, police, street clean-up, etc.) and the exclusive nature of the AOH, this would make sense and would almost certainly resolve this issue in favor of inclusion.

The AOH should organize the New York City St. Patrick's Day parade in an inclusive way that values all Irish people, in the spirit of the 1916 Proclamation of the Irish Republic. Until this issue is resolved in favor of inclusiveness and equality, we support the calls for a boycott of the parade.